Curse

Akaraxle · Jun 24, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Allow me to doubt the bold part.

Eh, doubt if you will but that is true. Me and a couple others are personally constantly reminding him of that on a regular basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

I am not of this kind of mindset at all when it comes to business.

With the epic failures of GW balance since nightfall the pvp community is no more. Lack of competitive rewards lost most of the really good players and thereby destroyed the community. I dont see any of these players who are in a way *hardcore* buying gw2 because the arenenet staff have time and again proven that they do not have the balls to make difficult choices to protect a competitve environment.

Yeah, well... things might've gone better if ANet was really brave and decided to keep PvP as Guild Wars' endgame and seeked support from third parties (if they couldn't run tournaments on their own). But, as I sometimes say, I think ANet underestimated the potential of their own game and, at some point, decided to take the easy route -- the WoW route.

Quote:

@Kaon, mitch, akaraxle.

stuff

Meh, that's quite harsh but I can't really disagree -- although I wouldn't put the blame on the skill balancers either. Rather, following my usual conspiracy theories, I think there was someone at the high spheres of ANet that told them it was OK to have overpowered trash because, trust me, they were told about those Nightfall skills.

erk · Jun 24, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

It's probably more like Anet was bleeding red ink until the last quarter according to NCSofts Quarterly earnings reports I found on their site, so there would have been little hope they could justify to NCSoft to have GW1 and GW2 dev teams at the same time.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 24, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

following on from Erk the report NCSoft financial report also quotes;

This summer NCsoft plans to launch its third closed beta test of Aion(R) before formally launching the much anticipated product later in the year. Casual online games such as Point Blank(TM), Punch Monster(TM), Dragonica(TM), and Love Beat(TM) are also scheduled for an official service launch later in the year.

No mention of GW 2 yet. So guess what, hold onto your hats, it;s prolly still in dev and most likely closed Alpha. And really, GW is small fish at only 12% revenue for the company compared to the big money for Lineage and Lineage II. I have been told that Lineage II has the best balanced PVP in any online game...

edit: oh, and why would NCSoft schedule GW2 to be released at the end of the year when it will clearly clash with the release of Aion and their other games? It has to be 2009.. when they originally scheduled the game release. ie. projected date was 2009/10. i can find the reports if you want.

quote: By game title, sales came to KRW 29 billion (US $27.8 million) from Lineage, KRW 35.7 billion (US $34.1 million) from Lineage II, KRW 5.4 billion (US $5.2 million) from City of Heroes/City of Villains(R) and KRW 9.5 billion (US $9.1 million) from Guild Wars. The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows 35% from Lineage, 43% from Lineage II , 7% from City of Heroes/City of Villains and 12% from Guild Wars.

So, generally financial reviews of publicly listed companies are there for people to use to invest in those companies. If NCSoft wanted to boost it;s share profit, it would release the GW2 date. Obviously not this year.

So.,.... someone better do something to just keep people going a bit longer in GW. Removing Real world prizes killed a lot of the community at the time...

Perhaps, maybe, and this is a thought, that ANet wants us to all be able to move across to GW2 with as much of our HoM updated as possible and ready to go for GW2. I mean, for example.... before EoTN, who else could level their character from 0 to 20 in under 6hours??? It took me 5hr 45min for me to create an Assassin and get it to Level 20 which included doing my Insignia quests.

I still have starter armour with no runes.... btw and Ascended at 7hrs age...all with Heros and Hench and Crazy Kilroy with 0 gold in bank (still haven;t opened my Xunlai account for this character). So... you can;t tell me that EoTN power creep does not exist. Journey to the North has a lot to answer for...

Back on Topic; WE NEED A NEW SKILL BALANCE> Mostly for PVP.... It;s getting stale.

Riotgear · Jun 24, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

edit: oh, and why would NCSoft schedule GW2 to be released at the end of the year when it will clearly clash with the release of Aion and their other games?

So? Being able to ride the holiday season wave is more important than making sure you've got a completely conflict-free release.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 24, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

I am enjoying this meta. Derv smite is a little bothersome though.

Tearz1993 · Jun 24, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Yeah I like the meta personally because Power Block is cool and actually useful now.

Zabe · Jun 24, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Tell me, does anyone in this forum, really ANYONE think that ANet could hire better skillbalancer than Isaiah Cartwright? I mean, they haven't realised that they should have fired him ages ago in 3 years, so WHY IN THE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HELL YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO HIRE SOMEONE BETTER TO THAT JOB?

I mean, srsly, there is 3 years of skill balance updates archived, and if not every single of those, but most of them, just plain show that Izzy doesn't know his job.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 24, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Tell me, does anyone in this forum, really ANYONE think that ANet could hire better skillbalancer than Isaiah Cartwright? I mean, they haven't realised that they should have fired him ages ago in 3 years, so WHY IN THE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HELL YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO HIRE SOMEONE BETTER TO THAT JOB?

I mean, srsly, there is 3 years of skill balance updates archived, and if not every single of those, but most of them, just plain show that Izzy doesn't know his job.

At this point in time it would be better handing the job over to a select few within the community that still plays this game.

Stockholm · Jun 24, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

At this point in time it would be better handing the job over to a select few within the community that still plays this game.

Yeah right, lets ask Bin Laden to clean up Irak while we are at it.

Billiard · Jun 24, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

I have talked with Ensign about this quite a bit in the past, which is one reason why I did the interview with him and Izzy: http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...illbalance.php

Back then Izzy and Ensign used to talk a lot about balance and what should be done. I think there might have been a time when Ensign would have considered working for ANet, but I think he actually has bigger plans and really wasn't all that interested. I'm trying to get him to come on the air (along with Izzy) for the Guru Challenge commentary. That should spark some discussion.

Anyway my experience from the Alpha was that even knowledgeable PvP players don't keep the whole picture in perspective when considering balance. Izzy solicited ideas for correcting some imbalanced stuff and all kinds of ideas where thrown out for fixing something, but a lot of them only addressed the symptoms and really didn't fix the problem.

To me, what Izzy tries to do when he balances stuff is address the underlying problems without completely killing skills. The thing is, some things players don't like are not considered problems by him in terms of balance. Paragons were pretty bad back in the day, and I think he did a pretty good job toning them down but keeping them still viable in matches. Sins the same thing. He keeps working on Rits, but I think they are pretty close. I think though that Dervishes and Scythe mechanics are his focus now and they still need work.

Yeah he takes his time doing things, in part because he gets limited dev time for GW changes now. So if he nerfs something too hard, he has to wait a whole cycle before he can bring it back some. Because of this, I think he is very conservative now in how he adjusts skills. Not because he really wants to take forever to get things into balance, but because he doesn't want to make things even worse and then have to wait a long time just to get back to where things were.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 24, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I can't say I'm convinced he doesn't completely kill whole templates, as of late he's been better in that regard though. Buffing certain skills indirectly kills others off and it happens almost every month, why run something something that is inferior? I'd still like to go back to the pre nerf to LOD days, and keep all the defensive nerfs since then in place, with a tweak to b surge. Hell we could nerf and nerf to the point where even that indirectly buffs other skills, instead we've been plagued with skills killed and then a direct power creep to others with the indirect still effecting it also. After that's all done one small updates comes out a month later and tweaks the skills that were buffed from last that had no business being buffed, end result more often than not we are getting like 3 skills changed a month, not good enough.

Riotgear · Jun 24, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

To me, what Izzy tries to do when he balances stuff is address the underlying problems without completely killing skills.

Unfortunately the underlying problems are often several things in combination, and he keeps half-heartedly tapping only a small portion of it, i.e. the recent MoI hit.

I guess that's why Ursan hasn't been nerfed though, he's still looking for the underlying problem. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Tell me, does anyone in this forum, really ANYONE think that ANet could hire better skillbalancer than Isaiah Cartwright?

1.) Go into random balance discussion
2.) Select a random post
3.) Wait 12 hours
4.) If that post hasn't been deleted, hire the poster

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 24, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@Kaon, mitch, akaraxle.

World of charrcraft will be shit as a pvp game because it will incorporate all of the gay shit that entered the game since factions as well as being unable to solve problems like hex stacking that have been present since prohecies.

That's making a LOT of assumptions, actually GW1 has made some pretty decent steps in the right direction lately with PvP/PvE seperation, PvE only skills etc.

You can't say GW2 will suck because of stuff like hex stacking when you know nothing about the mechanics of the game and how it differs from GW1.

PvE/PvP seperation is huge, what really needs to happen however to get a flourishing PvP game in GW2 is 3rd party tournaments, sponsoring etc. as well as more frequent (skill)balances.

The PvE aspect is what was holding GW1's PvP game back, in GW2 it has the potential of paying for a lot of the PvP stuff.

erk · Jun 25, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

.

2. Izzy is incompetent. The most recent evidence for this is the last update where he thought it necessary to buff symbolic strike.

Joe

The developers did state their reasons for that buff, though I don't know that it did much to improve sword usage.

"Recently, there has been a strong trend against sword use in GvG. Swords have always been a unique weapon in Guild Wars because they can do lethal damage without an elite skill. By improving Warrior elites with unique abilities (area-of-effect speed boost, and speed boost with knockdown, respectively), we hope to make swords a more viable choice again. Symbolic Strike has been improved to give players more options for dealing sword damage and to encourage synergy with Warrior signets."

DreamWind · Jun 25, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Unfortunately the underlying problems are often several things in combination, and he keeps half-heartedly tapping only a small portion of it, i.e. the recent MoI hit.

I guess that's why Ursan hasn't been nerfed though, he's still looking for the underlying problem. :P

I think this speaks to a larger problem at Anet and not neccessarily Izzy himself. I think Izzy isn't allowed to touch Ursan unless he gets permission, even if he thinks its destroying the game. I'm guessing similar things have happened with PvP balances in the past.

That being said, I think 80% of the skill balances in the history of the game have been bad. It seems like many of them are just changing the metagame for the sake of changing it rather than letting it settle and develop itself.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 25, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

2. Izzy is incompetent. The most recent evidence for this is the last update where he thought it necessary to buff symbolic strike.

How exactly does that show he's incompetent?

Now I don't agree with everything Izzy does, but you gotta realise that in a lot of situations his hands are pretty much tied.

A complete PvP/PvE seperation in GW2 might go a long way to prevent this.

pah01 · Jun 25, 2008, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

How exactly does that show he's incompetent?

Now I don't agree with everything Izzy does, but you gotta realise that in a lot of situations his hands are pretty much tied.

A complete PvP/PvE seperation in GW2 might go a long way to prevent this.

then adddendum to original assumption.

2. Those who tie izzys hands in any way towards game balance are incompetent.

Shuuda · Jun 25, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

That being said...the fact that we haven't seen better balances with the PvE/PvP split is a joke. Just another Anet debacle.

I have to agree strongly with this, the split just feels totally pointless because A-net have not used it to it's full potential, I mean, I was under the impression that they did the split so they could:

- Make bigger changes to balance in PvP without upsetting PvErs.
- Make some professions more popular in PvE without causing imbalance in PvP.

But so far, all we've seen is the same junk we always got (on both sides of the game). So it does make me ask, "Why did A-net bother with it?"

DreamWind · Jun 25, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

I was under the impression that they did the split so they could:

- Make bigger changes to balance in PvP without upsetting PvErs.
- Make some professions more popular in PvE without causing imbalance in PvP.

This would have been the optimal use of the split...

But unfortunately exactly what I predicted came true. I said it as soon as I heard the split was happening (and got flamed by various people on these forums). The split had ZERO to do with PvP balance. It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping PvE players shut up over balances that did almost nothing to affect their game, and then buffing the crap out of PvE so that people could grind for their HoM and buy Guild Wars 2.

Hyper Cutter · Jun 25, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

That being said, I think 80% of the skill balances in the history of the game have been bad. It seems like many of them are just changing the metagame for the sake of changing it rather than letting it settle and develop itself.

More like "changing the metagame because people whine about the current one", I think...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

I have to agree strongly with this, the split just feels totally pointless because A-net have not used it to it's full potential, I mean, I was under the impression that they did the split so they could:

- Make bigger changes to balance in PvP without upsetting PvErs.
- Make some professions more popular in PvE without causing imbalance in PvP.

But so far, all we've seen is the same junk we always got (on both sides of the game). So it does make me ask, "Why did A-net bother with it?"

They haven't even reverted that ridiculous Soul Reaping timer yet, which was one of the first things they should have done...